mscroggs.co.uk
mscroggs.co.uk

subscribe

Blog

A bad Puzzle for Today

 2018-05-02 
Every morning just before 7am, one of the Today Programme's presenters reads out a puzzle. Yesterday, it was this puzzle:
In a given month, the probability of a certain daily paper either running a story about inappropriate behaviour at a party conference or running one about somebody's pet being retrieved from a domestic appliance is exactly half the probability of the same paper containing a photo of a Tory MP jogging. The probability of no such photo appearing is the same as that of there being a story about inappropriate behaviour at a party conference. The probability of the paper running a story about somebody's pet being retrieved from a domestic appliance is a quarter that of its containing a photo of a Tory MP jogging. What are the probabilities the paper will (a) run the conference story, (b) run the pet story, (c) contain the jogging photo?
I'm not the only one to notice that some of Radio 4's daily puzzles are not great. I think this puzzle is a great example of a terrible puzzle. You can already see the first problem with it: it's long and wordy and very hard to follow on the radio. But maybe this isn't so important, as you can read it here after it's been read out.
Once you've done this, you can re-write the puzzle as follows: there are three news stories (\(A\), \(B\) and \(C\)) that the newspaper might publish in a month. We are given the following information:
$$\mathbb{P}(A\text{ or }B)=\tfrac12\mathbb{P}(C)$$ $$1-\mathbb{P}(C)=\mathbb{P}(A)$$ $$\mathbb{P}(B)=\tfrac14\mathbb{P}(C)$$
To solve this puzzle, we need use the formula \(\mathbb{P}(A\text{ or }B)=\mathbb{P}(A)+\mathbb{P}(B)-\mathbb{P}(A\text{ and }B)\). These Venn diagrams justify this formula:
Venn diagrams showing that \(\mathbb{P}(A\text{ or }B)=\mathbb{P}(A)+\mathbb{P}(B)-\mathbb{P}(A\text{ and }B)\).
Using the information we were given in the question, we get:
\begin{align} \tfrac12\mathbb{P}(C)&=\mathbb{P}(A\text{ or }B)\\ &=1-\mathbb{P}(C)+\tfrac14\mathbb{P}(C)-\mathbb{P}(A\text{ and }B)\\ \mathbb{P}(C)&=\tfrac45(1-\mathbb{P}(A\text{ and }B)). \end{align}
At this point we have reached the second problem with this puzzle: there's no answer unless we make some extra assumptions, and the question doesn't make it clear what we can assume. But let's give the puzzle the benefit of the doubt and try some assumptions.

Assumption 1: The events are mutually exclusive

If we assume that the events \(A\) and \(B\) are mutually exclusive—or, in other words, only one of these two articles can be published, perhaps due to a lack of space—then we can use the fact that
$$\mathbb{P}(A\text{ and }B)=0.$$
This means that \(\mathbb{P}(C)=\tfrac45\), \(\mathbb{P}(A)=\tfrac15\), and \(\mathbb{P}(B)=\tfrac15\). There's a problem with this answer, though: the three probabilities add up to more than 1.
This wouldn't be a problem, except we assumed that only one of the articles \(A\) and \(B\) could be published. The probabilities adding up to more than 1 means that either \(A\) and \(C\) are not mutually exclusive or \(A\) and \(B\) are not mutually exclusive, so \(C\) could be published alongside \(A\) or \(B\). There seems to be nothing special about the three news stories to mean that only some combinations could be published together, so at this point I figured that this assumption was wrong and moved on.
Today, however, the answer was posted, and this answer was given (without any working out). So we have a third problem with this puzzle: the answer that was given is wrong, or at the very best is based on questionable assumptions.

Assumption 2: The events are independent

If we assume that the events are independent—so one article being published doesn't affect whether or not another is published—then we may use the fact that
$$\mathbb{P}(A\text{ and }B)=\mathbb{P}(A)\mathbb{P}(B).$$
If we let \(c=\mathbb{P}(C)\), then we get:
\begin{align} \tfrac12c&=\mathbb{P}(A)+\mathbb{P}(B)-\mathbb{P}(A\text{ and }B)\\ &=\mathbb{P}(A)+\mathbb{P}(B)-\mathbb{P}(A)\mathbb{P}(B)\\ &=1-c+\tfrac14c-\tfrac14(1-c)c\\ \tfrac14c^2-\tfrac32c+1&=0. \end{align}
You can use your favourite formula to solve this to find that \(c=3-\sqrt5\), and therefore \(\mathbb{P}(A)=\sqrt5-2\) and \(\mathbb{P}(B)=\tfrac34-\tfrac{\sqrt5}4\).
In this case, our assumption appears to be more reasonable—as over the course of a month the stories published by a paper probably don't have much of an effect on each other—but we have the fourth, and probably biggest problem with the puzzle: the question and answer are not interesting or surprising, and the method is a bit tedious.
                        
(Click on one of these icons to react to this blog post)

You might also enjoy...

Comments

Comments in green were written by me. Comments in blue were not written by me.
@Stefan: It's possible that that was intended but it's not completely clear. If that was the intention, I stick to my point that it's odd that the other story can be published alongside these two.
Matthew
                 Reply
Doesn’t the word ‘either’ in the opening phrase make A and B explicity exclusive?
Stefan
                 Reply
 Add a Comment 


I will only use your email address to reply to your comment (if a reply is needed).

Allowed HTML tags: <br> <a> <small> <b> <i> <s> <sup> <sub> <u> <spoiler> <ul> <ol> <li> <logo>
To prove you are not a spam bot, please type "u" then "n" then "c" then "o" then "u" then "n" then "t" then "a" then "b" then "l" then "e" in the box below (case sensitive):

Archive

Show me a random blog post
 2026 

May 2026

World Cup stickers 2026

Apr 2026

A new puzzle every day
Mixing Wordle with other games

Feb 2026

Christmas (2025) is over
 2025 

Dec 2025

Christmas card 2025

Nov 2025

Christmas (2025) is coming!

Sep 2025

The partridge puzzle

Aug 2025

TMiP 2025 puzzle hunt

Jun 2025

A nonogram alphabet

Mar 2025

How to write a crossnumber

Jan 2025

Christmas (2024) is over
Friendly squares
 2024 

Dec 2024

A regular expression Christmas puzzle
Christmas card 2024

Nov 2024

Christmas (2024) is coming!

Feb 2024

Zines, pt. 2

Jan 2024

Christmas (2023) is over
 2023 
▼ show ▼
 2022 
▼ show ▼
 2021 
▼ show ▼
 2020 
▼ show ▼
 2019 
▼ show ▼
 2018 
▼ show ▼
 2017 
▼ show ▼
 2016 
▼ show ▼
 2015 
▼ show ▼
 2014 
▼ show ▼
 2013 
▼ show ▼
 2012 
▼ show ▼

Tags

determinants weather station golden spiral coventry news triangles cambridge manchester crosswords stickers manchester science festival crossnumber graphs rugby gerry anderson fonts zines thirteen folding paper a gamut of games correlation rhombicuboctahedron misleading statistics pizza cutting guest posts menace dates logs world cup dataset logo sport hexapawn craft countdown reuleaux polygons bempp platonic solids mathsjam pokémon wordle flexagons pi puzzles latex chess map projections errors realhats bubble bobble frobel bots polynomials wave scattering estimation newcastle data braiding geogebra bluesky harriss spiral recursion error bars matrix of cofactors squares regular expressions hyperbolic surfaces signorini conditions matrix of minors draughts inverse matrices pi approximation day game show probability light national lottery data visualisation turtles geometry the aperiodical rust tennis tmip electromagnetic field gaussian elimination talking maths in public plastic ratio games wordle big internet math-off fence posts accuracy 24 hour maths programming databet python boundary element methods palindromes martin gardner phd sobolev spaces kenilworth curvature royal baby matt parker cross stitch advent calendar final fantasy preconditioning pac-man nine men's morris alphabets radio 4 finite element method convergence matrix multiplication video games logic probability asteroids matrices christmas card mathslogicbot standard deviation bodmas weak imposition chalkdust magazine stirling numbers dragon curves sound nonograms hannah fry warwick approximation raspberry pi hats partridge puzzle folding tube maps ternary wool arrangement puzzles tetris computational complexity inline code pascal's triangle live stream mathsteroids captain scarlet machine learning trigonometry arithmetic pokémon dinosaurs sorting graph theory binary youtube noughts and crosses quadrilaterals kings go coins chebyshev speed christmas finite group mean golden ratio runge's phenomenon exponential growth fractals reddit php datasaurus dozen simultaneous equations propositional calculus people maths london underground pythagoras javascript european cup books ucl edinburgh friendly squares numbers gather town statistics interpolation football royal institution numerical analysis crossnumbers game of life oeis crochet anscombe's quartet london

Archive

Show me a random blog post
▼ show ▼
© Matthew Scroggs 2012–2026